Just some quick charts today. It has come to my attention that some of the sentiment surveys and various other contrarian indicators I follow have moved from high bullish levels, usually found at intermediate tops, towards euphoric levels, which are usually found near the end of bull markets.
In my opinion, the current feeling of the market and the mood of the market participants is much more closer to that of 2007 than 2009. We have come a long way in this bull market, and the majority of investors have missed out on the gains. These investors are now piling in with both hands and feet.
They are the ones quoting various fundamental "good news" and various reasons as to why equities will go higher. However, these investors were no where to be seen during the panic of 2008, when fundamental "bad news" pointed as to why equities will go lower. It was wise to be buying during the late 2008 crash and it was also wise to be buying in the early parts of 2009. Buying equities today is a fools game.
In my opinion, the current feeling of the market and the mood of the market participants is much more closer to that of 2007 than 2009. We have come a long way in this bull market, and the majority of investors have missed out on the gains. These investors are now piling in with both hands and feet.
They are the ones quoting various fundamental "good news" and various reasons as to why equities will go higher. However, these investors were no where to be seen during the panic of 2008, when fundamental "bad news" pointed as to why equities will go lower. It was wise to be buying during the late 2008 crash and it was also wise to be buying in the early parts of 2009. Buying equities today is a fools game.
"The wise man does at once what the fool does finally." - Niccolo MachiavelliConsider the following:
Chart 1: It's that old "market top" feeling...
Source: Bank Credit Analyst / Frank Holmes
Do you remember what 2007 felt like? No, really... do not just answer quickly, but actually think about it for a second. Think about the constant bullish media news (present today), analysts quoting good fundamentals (present today), strategists predicting ever higher price and earnings targets (present today), speculators relaying on liquidity (present today) and retail investors running around conferences like "headless chooks" worried that they will miss the next big move (present today).
Bank Credit Analyst recently wrote about this, stating:
Bank Credit Analyst recently wrote about this, stating:
"Sentiment among individuals, advisors and traders has experienced a sudden spike recently. Its latest Bloomberg numbers show that 53 percent of those surveyed expect equities to be the best-performing asset class over the next year. This represents a 17-point jump over the previous poll in November, and the highest reading in the four-year history of the survey."
Frank Holmes goes on to write:
"My anecdotal experience this week at the World Money Show in Orlando, Florida supports the view that investors are going “all-in” for equities, as the exhibit hall and conference rooms were packed with thousands of enthusiastic investors looking to gain insights."
Now, does that remind you of the market bottom in 2009 or the market top in 2007? Other much wiser contrarian investors share the same concerns too. In his latest newsletter, just received this morning (Asian time), Marc Faber writes:
"The fact that hardly anybody can see why stocks would decline makes me very nervous (9 months ago, nobody could see why European stocks would rally). Furthermore, it is noteworthy that some hard core bears who missed the entire 2009 – 2013 rally are now positive about stocks."
Source: Short Side Of Long
The extreme group-think attitudes within sentiment surveys usually signal the end of the rally, rather than its beginning, as markets tend to correct and surprise the majority. The recent data from the National Association of Active Investment Managers (NAAIM) has just done that - signalled that we are currently in the midst of major bullish group-think. The average fund manager is now holding 104% net long exposure (record high), meaning not only are the managers "all-in", but they are now also leveraging up as they anticipate further gains ahead.
Furthermore, the most bearish managers, usually known as hedgers tend to almost always hold short exposure just in case the market declines. But now, even these guys have thrown in the towel and for the first time in the survey's history, the most bearish fund managers hold a 60% net long equity exposure. Basically, the bulls are bullish and the bears are also bullish.
Chart 3: Advisors most bullish since 2007 top
Source: Elliot Wave
According to Elliot Wave and Market Vane's Bullish Consensus survey, newsletter writers and market advisors are now turning extremely bullish on future market prospects. The chart above shows that at 69% bulls, we are only a couple of percentage points off the bullish readings we saw prior to a major top in 2007. Furthermore, readings around 69% have occurred just prior to the intermediate corrections of March 2012 and September 2012.
Chart 4: Speculators are at record optimism
Source: SentimenTrader
There are usually many types of investors when it comes to the stock market. However, the two most prominent ones in the US are those that invest in blue chip large cap names found in the Dow Jones Industrial index or the S&P 500 index; and then there are those who tend to invest into higher beta Technology stocks. In my opinion, it is always a valid strategy to track the mood of these tech speculators, who more often than not tend to chase rising markets and short into falling market - and at major turning points they tend to be awfully wrong.
The first chart above shows that according to the Hulbert Financial Digest, advisors and newsletter writers who cover Technology stocks are recommending their client to put over 81% of all funds into work. This is one of the highest readings on record and has only been witnessed a handful of times over the last decade or more. Usually what proceeds these kind of readings is a consolidation at best or even a market crash at worst.
The second chart above shows that Japanese margin traders (usually considered to be a dumb money contrary indicator) are now profitable. Sentiment readings like the one shown above usually occur at or near major market tops. The fact that this is the highest ever reading, makes it even more concerning.
Chart 5: Risk Appetite reaching euphoric levels!

Source: Credit Suisse
Finally, the last chart I want to share with you today is the Credit Suisse's Risk Appetite Index, which has now reached levels of euphoria, far surpassing the high bullish levels in March 2012. The chart is pretty self explanatory and together with all the previous charts, plus many more indicators not included in this post, signal that the stock market is now in a period of euphoria.
While I have considered other scenarios (not just recently, but also prior to engaging into short positions last year) I continue to hold a strong conviction that the next major move for the stock market is on the downside. I believe that a major sell off correction is now overdue and it is a fools game to be investing into the stock market this late in the business cycle. I urge you to let "headless chook" retail investors pile in without following them, while you wise up!
What I Am Watching




Good post again Tiho.
ReplyDeleteYou can add to the list increasing valuations based on increasing multiples and declining earnings.
That said, this market needs to distribute from smart money to public before going eventualy down. This still doesnt occured. So I expect a several months lasting distribution with mild gains on the market, and increasing stocks "de-corelation". Tops are always markets of stocks pickers.
Fred
How do you know the smart money has not yet sold to the retail public investors? Just asking.
DeleteMaybe it's on going, but I still need a distribution top. Any top, from intermediate-term (2010-2011-2012) to long-term (2000-2007) have a distribution shape on daily charts (up-down move of 3-4% during 3-6 months). We still miss that.
ReplyDeleteFred
Another great post Tiho. Thanks again.
DeleteFred, I've done a fairly extensive accumulation-distribution study these last couple of weeks that you might enjoy. I certainly recommend it, but then again, I'm baised since I'm the author. ;-)
All the stars are aligned...
ReplyDeletehttp://barrons.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ON-AZ934_cover0_KS_20130201234948.jpg
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748703892404578271912678514142.html?mod=TWM_pastedition_1#articleTabs_article%3D1
They even brag about having said the same thing on 15 October 2012...we'll see whether their uncanny sense of timing works again.
Even the usually cautious Puplava hasn't resisted the temptation and has written an uber-bullish article that makes some bold predictions(using trite arguments):
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/chris-puplava/secular-bear-market-in-stocks-is-over
On a different note,as a fellow yen bull,you might be interested in knowing(if you do not know it already)that the BoJ is in reality going to cut its net bond purchases by two thirds starting in 2014,thus significantly reducing the pace of debt monetization.
So much for all their inflationary noises...They've really pulled off a great marketing scam:all the impressive numbers quoted(Y13 trillion per month in bond purchases)are gross,net purchases will amount to roughly Y1 trillion per month,compared to the current Y3 trillion per month...It's now absolutely clear that there's only hot air below the recent rises in all currencies against the yen.Of course the selling galore can continue for a while,but the lack of a real fundamental catalyst renders it vulnerable to a sharp reversal.My guess is that the yen will bottom when equities top,à la 2007,when euphoria dissipates and hard cold reality sets in.
Yeah, Puplava's crew surprises me with their secular bull call. Just making new highs doesn't mean a thing. The markets did that in '72/'73 just before cratering.
DeleteOf course they may be right that the '09 low was the nominal low for the secular bear, but that doesn't mean we aren't in for another long stretch of essentially sideways markets, starting with a sizable dump from these levels; akin to the 70's.
And of course their valuation argument is lame. Any objective and rigorous look at valuations shows that we are at levels that have marked secular bulls in the past. So a secular bull that starts here would rely on a "this time it's different" scenario.
And finally, does it make any kind of sense that the biggest stock bubble in history would be corrected by the shortest secular bull in history? They're relying on moneyprinting to support this new bull, along with some questionable demographic theory.
I think they're taking a calculated by saying this now, with their out being that even if we do see a more typical secular bear that continues to stretch many years from now, that the nominal low will hold and they can say that the secular bull started there, and that they were right. But most intellectually honest analysts define the start at the valuation low, and that's very unlikely to be collocated with the nominal low.
This could have been written last week, or the week before last, or the week before that. Pointing out conditions is certainly a good idea to keep one hand on the exit door however price action rules the day - and just tell me how many have been missing a rally NOT led by Apple? excuses abound, the MARKET is the final arbiter.
ReplyDeleteTiho,
ReplyDeleteA couple of points:
1.The sentiment chart you posted reached similar extremes back in mid 2010, did that signal the end of the bull?
2. Your rant about Fund Managers being fully long say nothing. Fund Mangers going all in do not signal tops, Pension Funds do. Where are they? thats right still in Bonds.
3. For every bull quote you post there is an equivalent bear post, it means jack. The FACT is when you read comments on investment blogs (e.g Yahoo) everyone is bearish, this bull still has a ways to go.
4. Do I remember 2007. Yep, in fact I was all in on the short side right at the top. No bull (pardon the pun)
5. Being short you do realise your on the other side of Ray Dalio trade`...
If you want to take me on, increase your shorts on XLF, Im hyper bullish US bank stocks...or you could jump to the dark side and join me :=)
Good luck with the shorts
JG
Hey JG. Are you bullish?
DeleteWhat is your thoughts on USD/JPY?
ReplyDeleteHi Tiho -
ReplyDeleteI was your first commenter on your blog, but haven't commented since. I always enjoy your commentary. Thanks for your work.
If you don't mind I have a bit of advice for all amateur traders out there: Please - take this data and realize that if anything, it suggests lightening up on longs, not going short. Shorting is for later, when price structure has deteriorated. We are NOT at that point yet. Risk/reward is not currently in your favor.
I am a contrarian at heart, but have learned that you MUST wait for price. You may not catch the top/bottom, but with proper money management techniques, you will enjoy positive expectancy - which is what you really want. Really.
You sure you're not suffering from cognitive dissonance? Your posts are very one-sided. The reality looks very differently. Here is just one of many charts showing a totally different picture then the one you're portraying. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/02/wall-st-feeling-better-but-far-from-bullish/
ReplyDeleteHowever, this is still a good blog and keep up with the work, but at times it feels as unbiased and balanced as Fox ;)
That is not a reliable indicator nor is it a real-money indicator.
DeleteBtw, I'm not trying to convince someone that there will be good times ahead, but merely that there are other interpretations of the status quo.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I want to thank you all a diversify bunch of comments. It is always interesting to read what other traders and investors are thinking. I'll try to comment and answer a few questions:
ReplyDeleteFred - I tend to agree with you, but markets do not always have to enter technical formations at the top of the bull market. While it did happen in 2000 and in 2007, as well as few other times too, consider the history of previous secular bear markets. In January 1973 the market just rose into a blow off top and peaked. It never came back for a re-test nor did it go through a distribution phase. Believe it or not, a very similar outcome occurred in January 1906, where the market also ended in a blow off top and never re-tested that high. Both were very famous "optimistic periods" where investors saw huge returns coming for the reminder of the year, only to be disappointed. Similar to today I guess.
The Rothbardian Investor - thank you for the update. I saw the Barrons cover too. I also saw front page NY Times article talking about retail investors flooding back into stocks. I also read Chris Puplava's article too. As a matter of fact I read his articles ever week and respect him a lot. Unfortunately, I do not agree with the start of a new secular bull market. Also thank you for your Yen views.
Onlooker - I agree with everything you have stated as I hold the same view. While I am bearish on stocks right now and expect a correction or a bear market around 20% to 30%, I've never been super-bearish on the stock market. In other words, I have always held a view that March 2009 lows will most likely mark a secular low in terms of nominal price. So just like you, I also believe we are in for a very long sideways stretch, possibly into 2015/16 or even further. Furthermore, the bubble at the end of the 1990s and into 2000 became more overvalued then any other secular bull market peak including the 1906, 1929, 1966 etc. Therefore, the mean revision also supports the very long sideways stretch view.
Anonymous @ February 3 - yes it could have been written couple of weeks ago, but if you are a long term investor you do not really care about days or weeks that much. You are more concerned about long term movements in quarters and years. There is no excesses in this post and I do not think bulls have gained anything serious in terms of profits. By the sounds of it, you must be a trader, but please consider the following longer term analysis of price:
Since the last peak in stocks around early September 2012 @ 1474, S&P 500's bull market has managed to progress higher by only a net 41 points or less than 2.5%. So those who have been holding longs, have managed to gain $2,500 on $100,000 invested. At the same time Apple has lost more then one third or 36% of its value. Even if you shorted apple with only $10,000 (10 times less capital) you would be up $3,600, which is a better return. In other words, I hardly doubt anyone is actuating missing out on a rally. Now is not the time to be bullish - that is just retail investor talk - the same talk from investors who have missed a 120% move from March 09 lows.
JG - Hi there. Let me try and answer a few questions here:
ReplyDelete1. Yes sentiment was high in April 2010 as well, prior to a flash crash, but the economy wasn't at the end of its expansion cycle, it was at the beginning. Therefore, while we experienced a 16% correction in a rapid movement on the downside, just like you stated it did not end the bull market. Why? because the economy kept growing and the earnings kept growing too. Ask yourself will the same occur in 2013? If you think so, you should buy stocks. I have been saying for awhile now that margins and earnings are peaking. There is already evidence of that. A lot smarter people than me, like Byron Wien also do not think earnings will grow (video above).
2. I am not sure what point you are making here, because a lot of fund manager surveys actually include pension fund managers.
4. Well done to you. You must have made a killing, when 99% of the industry blew up. Are you an infamous hedge fund manager by any chance?
5. It doesn't worry me who is on my side or against my side.
I am also not sure what it means to take you on? I do not hold any shorts in Financial Sector like XLF. Also, let us know if you are currently long the stock market (sound alike you are)? And how much allocation do you hold in US equities and financial stocks? Finally, thank you and I wish you also good luck and much profit this year!
Alexander Beasant - Yen is crashing right now, obviously. There is definite panic and yet the price goes higher. So what I will do is wait to see what the re bound will be like, either a weak one which signals a downtrend confirmation and a possible top or a strong rebound which could signal further gains if a new bear market starts. It is a similar setup to 2007, where the Yen was extremely oversold and stocks extremely overbought, so we will see. Japanese policy makers claim a lot, but have not achieved anything. That doesn't mean we should not listen to them, but they have talked though for two decades and almost always acted weak.
ReplyDeleteJosh Janvrin - I think your comments are very wise. You are definitely much wiser than I am.
Johan Lindén - I do not think I am suffering from one sided views. Please consider that I was very bullish on the stock market in August 2011, September 2011 and October 2011 (links here, here, here, here, here and here amongst many others). Stock market bottomed at 1074 and has now rallied all the way to 1514, which is an increase 41% in less than a year and half. Back than a lot of traders and investors were telling me that I was crazy to be a bull. Certain bloggers were claiming that S&P 500 will re-test march 2009 lows, while others called for the worst year in American history. I am not making this up, these views were real at the time - just look it up.
Fast forward to present, I am bearish on stocks and have been bearish ever since August and September of 2012, when S&P 500 traded above 1400s. I believe that the next major move is down, especially because I believe that the economic expansion is coming to the end and therefore the bull market from March 2009 lows is almost over.
Also, investors ask me why do I hold a bullish view on commodities and not on stocks? Answer is simple, commodities have corrected a lot (Silver especially) and stocks have rallied a lot (so its time for a correction). Consider the fact that I was very bearish on Gold In August 2011 (here, link here and here). I also shorted Gold and Silver in early September 2011 because I believed them to be very overbought (which I rarely do). But, fast forward to today and I am bullish on these assets, even if they continue to correct further by another 5% to 10% or so lower. These assets have struggled since middle of 2011 and their fundamentals continue to improve, while stocks have surged since 2011 and their fundamentals continue to deteriorate.
Tiho, as you know, I'm a "fan" of you and I'm also skeptically bearish, but there are some STRONG signs of not having reached a top yet. This is another one. What do you think of this ;)
ReplyDeletehttp://buzz.money.cnn.com/2013/01/31/bill-gross-markets/
But let me also remind you of something extremely bullish that you haven't mentioned at all but are widely knowledged... the enormous liquidity injection! We have seen this liquidity pour into the markets before, and EVERY TIME the market has been very strong afterwards. I will probably never take any short holdings during these type of FED actions.
1. Lets put it into perspective: The S&P fell from about 1217 in April 2010 and was back at 1225 in Oct 2010, it fell even more in July 2011 and again recovered and exceeded the highs i.e. these were normal corrections in an ongoing Bull.
ReplyDeleteYou appear to justify part of your argument on the point that the US economy kept growing, well the fact is that US GDP growth has been morbid and range bound between 1.3 and 2.5% since the start of 2010, much lower than between 2003 and 2007 yet the market is pushing all time highs which brings me to the my real point…
The problem you have is that you place too much emphasis on economic fundamentals, monetary policy clearly trumps fundamentals and the fact is the major western central banks have been pumping the system with liquidity in a big way since 2009. You should also understand that monetary policy distorts the normal expansion cycles you refer to so this historical data becomes a red herring and placing bets on it is misguided.
Do I agree with the current MP policy? No, but that’s the way it is and I certainly would not bet against it. Obviously you feel more confident in taking them on – You’ve got balls, Ill give you that!
Regarding corporate growth if you go back you will see a long term trend up (with a blip in 2009), I believe money printing will support these.
2. Apologies, I should have been clearer. A Fund Manager is essentially one that manages money which includes a whole range of investors from Hedge Funds, Institutional Traders, Pension Funds and Insurance Companies. The latter 2 tend to have a history of coming in late on a bull cycle. Right now Pension Funds have a Bond/Stock split of around 34/39 while at the peak of 2007 they were over 60% in stocks. So again you are generalizing data.
4. Why thankyou, I was quite proud of picking the exact top right then. Did I ride it all the way down? Nope, I got whipsawed with all the government intervention and learnt that shorting is really a sucker’s game in this environment.
5. Bully for you, I suggest you double down on your shorts!
This...
Delete"You should also understand that monetary policy distorts the normal expansion cycles you refer to so this historical data becomes a red herring and placing bets on it is misguided."
When Tiho recently posted a chart of the economic cycle I questioned if the monetary policy had delayed the cycle. According to the circle we were near the end. However it doesn't feel like that. So I wonder has the printing made the cycle last longer than normal so we aren't at quarter past the hour at all.
Another thing about markets peaking at 14,000 is that it is a nominal figure. Cash has been devalued by printing money. If you said by 25% that market says 14,000 but it's only worth 10,500 in the money we had before the crash. Is it not that the market is overvalued, it's that the cash isn't worth the same?
Exactly that is my underlying point, the nominal price on the stock market is not based on fundamentals but free money in this current QE environment.
DeleteI think we could potentially be entering Mises crack up boom phase, the markets could easily continue to rise even parabolically.
In the end it will all come crashing down but I dont think that wil be for awhile.
JG
JG
It is HUGE risk though isn't it JG - are we about to go parabolic in a massive money printing crack-up boom... or is this just another sucker's rally?
DeleteI don't know the answer to that and I suspect you do not either. Judging by the hundreds of financial articles posted over the weekend it seems to be the question occupying just about every financial commentator.
Yes, some very very bullish and some are very bearish but, truth be told, no one knows.
FWIW, and I am no expert, I think we might get a big correction of between 10% and 20% in the coming 2 to 3 months... but then we might indeed go parabolic to even greater highs later in the year.
Bob, I agree no one can know for certain, it all rests on the balance of probabilities and you make your bet from there. I also agree we will at some stage this year have a decent correction that takes the indexes back under the 200 day MV but I believe that the indexes will go on to make another high and most likely another after that - again not justified by fundamentals but based on liquidity. My guess is that this thing is still a few years from completely coming apart. You can also assume that those investing in stocks at the moment believe the same thing, in the end its all like a game of musical chair...i know pathetic our whole capitalist system is based on what looks like a shell game!
DeleteJG
JG - I don't double up on my bets just because someone on the internet challenged me to do so. I do not run a thousand dollar retail account, so for me at least, that is careless thinking which closely resembles something similar to a gamblers thrill rather than a long term investment. I try to run a business here and have responsibility for not just my personal funds, but also many other people. Regarding the direction of the US equity market, you have made your point very clear and I wish you best of luck with your long positions.
DeleteHi Tiho,
ReplyDeleteIn my view everybody is right and wrong at the same time. The guys who critisize Tiho now, I did not see their bold comments in November. At least not with the current tone. Nevertheless, Tiho has been short for at least two months. I am Hungarian as well George Soros, though I do not want to even measure myself to the best hedge fund manager of all time. But consider the fact that even Soros has been proved to be wrong since the QE programs began. In the actual environment surrounded by concrete present asset purchase programs by central banks and uncertain politic decisions in the future nobody is able to perform sistematically well. I trade in the markets because I am addicted and I love setting strategies but I know that it is impossible to beat the market with very high probability. That's why I trade (invest) only with a pocket money and not with my savings. We live in a world that can not be compared to any other ages, no sentiment, no other indicators can be applied. There is no analogy in the market history. One can rely only on intuiton. But that is not the complex truth, it is only my opinion. Good luck to everybody here! Oh, and Tiho - I think- you do a very useful job to contribute to the intuition above. It is only a small part of the big picture, but inevitable.
K.
" In the actual environment surrounded by concrete present asset purchase programs by central banks and uncertain politic decisions in the future nobody is able to perform systematically well..... We live in a world that can not be compared to any other ages. No sentiment, no other indicators can be applied. There is no analogy in the market history. "
DeleteTRUE WORDS deserve to be re-iterated.
It is same old "this time it's different" isn't it?
DeleteNot really. Your market phrase typically refers to a thesis in need of confirmation and biased in its search. The observation that there is no documented economic history with the types and amounts of global central bank interventions we are currently witnessing is an objective statement. Yes, there have been individual country episodes but nothing so globally coordinated. I have no idea what happens next or how this resolves itself. I obviously have nothing to reference it against.
DeleteTiho: Nothing counts until it is cashed. All that matters is who walks away with the other person's money. You have documented well the excesses in the market with prices at a high level. I would think that a vacuum is developing underneath the current stock market pricing structure because of the excessive bullishness and then the margin debt can get lit up. I would not be surprised if the margin debt is at an all time high level now-this is a bullish fact for the market as of 2/1 until the market starts to drop and then it is not. Muhammed Ali would call this rope a dope-bleed out the other side's strength and then pow.
ReplyDeleteStock market is due for a correction.
ReplyDeleteCan GOLD and SILVER be the value traps just like tech stocks in 2000? If you ask Barry Bannister, the answer is YES.
Well, Barry Bannister is not really a billionaire now, is he? You are better of asking Jim Rogers, George Soros, Kyle Bass, Marc Faber or any of the other market wizards who have profited for years on end. Gold is dirt cheap on relative basis to US debt levels or global central bank creation.
DeleteAnonymus and Tiho
DeleteI have been waiting for the Stock Market correction since 2012, however, I have now concluded that there can be NO correction until the Fed stops flooding the economy with money which is tending to drive the Markey upwards. The market is now a huge bubble waiting to burst when QE infinity stops.
Brian
Bonds up, USD up, JPY up, GLD holding, SPX firmly down. Looks like a typical bear market day. I hope it's the signal of the beginning.
ReplyDeleteBest. Santiago
USD is not up. Only euro is down. Check AUDUSD, NZDUSD or CADUSD. DOlar is flat.
Deleteuff, you are right!. Kicking myself.
DeleteWhy don't all you anonymous folks pick a name so a person can divide between who is who? This is all very confusing. There sure are some big egos out there!!
ReplyDeleteThank you for all the comments.
ReplyDeleteI rarely leave a response, however i did some searching and wound up here "Equities In Euphoria!".
ReplyDeleteAnd I actually do have a few questions for you if it's allright. Is it simply me or does it look like some of these comments come across like they are left by brain dead people? :-P And, if you are posting on additional sites, I'd like to follow everything fresh you have
to post. Could you list of the complete urls of all your shared pages like your linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter
feed?
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